In October 2021, we presented our new strategic PRE-ELEC® focus areas in Distributor Day 2021. We have collected all your questions on this page with answers from our experts:
Premix greetings and group strategy
Hanna Ristola, Managing Director
Do you plan to grow with acquisitions?
We will keep our eyes open if interesting possibilities arise. Please give us hints if you encounter interesting companies.
What is now the total production capacity (with the new line)?
Production capacity will not be a limiting factor in the future.
PRE-ELEC® strategy
Kari Nieminen, Business Director, PRE-ELEC®
Functionalized graphene and CNT are emerging and now available commercially. Kindly share your views.
So far, Carbon Black and Carbon Fiber are the main conductive additives for us. We haven't seen or found applications where the high price of CNTs and Graphenes would be accepted on a big scale. However, we are all the time investigating and following all development in this area.
Cable Applications
Outi Härkki, Sales Manager
Anssi Aarnio, Senior Product Manager
What kind of cables and cable manufacturers are the target customers for PRE-ELEC® semiconductives?
Medium voltage cables, where there is a need for a semiconductive layer in the cable structure. Especially PP cables, but we have some selection also for PE-based cables. However, we aim for more niche solutions, not XLPE semiconductive layers that Borealis, Dow, Sabic control.
How will Premix compete with DOW and Sabic, who have a long experience in this application area?
We are not going to compete in their "territory," but instead in more niche applications. Especially PP-cables for medium voltage underground installations are interesting - also, monosil-process for semiconductive layer, or HDPE conductive jacket for high voltage cables.
What is the competing situation in recyclable cable compounds?
Prysmian and Nexans control the market and have their own solutions. Smaller cable manufacturers are interested in joining the party but would need our assistance finding the right solution.
What do you expect from us distributors in this phase?
Check your local cable manufacturers that are concentrating on these application areas. Find the needs of the companies.
Why no polyether TPU based semiconductives (better behavior in weatherability and outside environment)?
We have a polyether-based TPU in our portfolio: TPU18025
How should the adhesive conductor be applied to bends of which material?
The conductive adhesive PE18500 will act as an adhesive layer between PE and Aluminium or PE and Copper-Nickel. The main application is submarine high voltage cables, but there could be more applications in other areas not related to cables as such.
Cable design and construction are controlled by standards. Do Premix's solutions fit within these specifications?
Yes, partly. PP-based solutions are not yet standardized, but the requirements will be the same as for XLPE. We have done some testing on the semiconductive cable compound, but ultimately the final cable must be tested by the customer, and this is not yet done. However, we feel very confident that PP18220 and PP18920 will pass the tests easily.
Is there any need to differentiate cable-layers by color? I suppose you offer only black.
Yes, but mainly in low voltage cables to color the different phases and neutral and ground potential. We offer black but could also manufacture a fire-retardant cable jacket, that is white, grey or black.
Compared to XLPE, putting aside all the positives of using PP semiconductive, will the price be attractive? As a producer, you have experience.
The goal is to have a reasonable price for the customer compared to XLPE, so this would be a real solution they can prefer. We would need to study the price structure and competition case by case.
Flex tube, hose, and profile applications
Pasi Seppälä, Product Manager
What is a typical end-item assembly for conductive profiles? Where can these applications be found?
Conductive profiles for sensoring purposes can be found in applications such as "safety edges", which can be found in various use cases such as garage doors, warehouse gates, and robotic arms. A common factor for these is frequent motorized repetitive movement.
What is the difference between tubes and hoses?
Hoses and tubes are used pretty much synonymously. Hoses are typically reinforced, but for example, medical gases may be conveyed via piping, hose, or tubing, which all essentially describe the same item.
Do such conductive materials need FC or medical approvals for conductive hoses for hospital gases? Does the application require it?
FC is required for materials, which may get in contact with food. Hospital gas assemblies and their requirements are defined in EN ISO 5359:2014 and 93/42/EEC directive. The assemblies have medical device class IIa, thus a conformity check for CE certification is required by the party, which introduces the medical device to the market.
Can TPU- and TPE-based products also be diluted?
Up to some degree, yes. However, TPU- and TPE-based concentrates are not very common on the market due to their more problematic processing behavior. Also, the basic processing prerequisites must be in check for both the concentrate and the dilution material.
Can these grades be injection molded or processed by other methods?
Yes, they can, however soft materials tend to be tacky if they don't contain a suitable set of processing aids. The tackiness can be encountered partially by having efficient mold cooling systems, proper cooling times, and suitable part geometry with large area ejectors. Also, the addition of a mold releaser masterbatch may be suitable as long as its dosage doesn't cause problems and it doesn't migrate out of the material too much.
Why are compression sets not included on TDS?
The soft and flexible materials have not been in a specific focus until just recently, thus the general datasets have not been optimized to give the best information available on the product properties. We have the testing capability, and they will eventually be added to the technical data available for the relevant grades.
Filament, film & fiber applications
Kosti Rämö, Sourcing Manager
Ville Mylläri, Product Manager
I guess producers of monofilament and liners are not so many, do you have good knowledge about these? Are the volumes of these producers suitable to be distributor business, or will Premix take care of these as direct customers?
There are few bigger monofilament/raffia tape producers and plenty of smaller producers globally. Currently, mainly the bigger producers are working on conductive production and the smaller ones are willing to start the production too.
Question on bigbags - Why are you offering material only for type C bigbags?
The high price level of permanent antistatic grades has led the market to use mainly type C bags. Also, controlling the resistivity at the dissipative level is difficult with CB-filled materials.
Question on wearables - Why would the customer use a heart rate belt over the smartwatch measuring heart rate optically from the wrist?
They are a little bit different products for different needs. A heart rate belt gives more accurate data, for example, for professional athletes, an optical wrist is suitable for many just to monitor daily activity and recovery.
Question on fibers - What restricts us from using monocomponent production lines instead of bicomponent fiber lines? Is Premix going to launch a grade suitable for monocomponent fibers?
We are working on developing a grade suitable for monofilament lines. The limitation is the very demanding melt spinning process which probably requires a new approach from the material.
Fiber conductives sound very exciting! Have you tried to make non-woven PP?
No, we haven't. In theory, it might be possible, but we would need to have a customer project and a partner to start the development.
Sheet applications
Oxana Helenius-Yusupova, Distribution Manager
Anssi Aarnio, Senior Product Manager
How to ensure similar SR on both sides of the sheet? Why does it differ from time to time?
This is related to compression. When the sheet is made, it is important to avoid excessive compression, so we don't lose conductivity too much. Also, stretching will also play a role. For example, in thermoformed trays, the stretched side will have higher resistance as carbon black particles are further away from each other.
Why are we not selling PS to sheet applications anymore?
The volume is big, and the margin is poor. We'd need to renew our portfolio and also check possibilities in production. Finland is not located ideally for bulk applications and therefore it is quite hard for us to compete with price only.
On what applications should we focus our sales efforts?
ATEX-areas are interesting and could bring some new leads.
Battery and Energy Applications
Tuomas Kiikka, Business Development Director
Anssi Aarnio, Senior Product Manager
How does Premix see Lithium-ion batteries and possibilities?
At the moment, we haven't identified opportunities in Lithium-ion batteries.
Which part of the battery needs conductive polymers?
On fuel cells/vanadium batteries it is a part called bipolar plate
How to get super strong conductivity, in PP18698 whether you use carbon black all the time or some other solution if it's not a secret?
Bipolar plate requires a non-metallic conductor therefore PP18698 is based on full carbon-based solution - exact fillers are proprietary info.
Are there any applications in EV cars where PRE-ELEC could be applied in general?
As Lithium-ion batteries are not possible, potential applications come in technical parts like EMI shielding and ESD / grounding applications or even in charging cables.
Concentrates
Pasi Seppälä, Product Manager
What features in equipment guarantee even homogenization?
Using proper settings is the critical factor. Having the latest technology does not equal an optimal outcome. Some factors are essential; 1) Use a processing line with a maintenance routine and sufficient mixing power or compensate it with a higher L/D ratio. 2) Use a reliable (gravimetric preferable) feeding method to dose concentrate and dilution polymer. 3) Make sure the melting happens after the feeding zone of the extruder. The too high temperature at the feeding zone will melt and lubricate the compression zone. Thus enough friction may not be generated to melt the concentrate granules completely.
Injection molding customers are scared with low MFI of PRE-ELEC concentrates? How to persuade them that the material behaves differently when processed?
If they're scared of the idea, emphasize that concentrates are typically made into polymer carriers suitable for specific processes. The low MFR value of a concentrate describes the fact that there is a lot of carbon black, nothing about the processability. Once the customer dilutes the material, the absolute amount of carbon black in the polymer melt drops and is much better flowing than what the concentrate might imply. This change in "processability" can be verified by producing a blended part, cutting it into pieces, and then re-measuring the melt flow rate from the diluted material. This is something we can also provide as a service if verbal encouragement is not sufficient to convince the molders.
Can the conductive concentrate be reused as a finished product after grinding? Does it maintain its conductive properties?
Concentrates are typically way more conductive than needed for the end uses. Thus the customer may produce the initial products with slightly higher conductivity to compensate for any conductivity losses encountered when grinding the scraps. Carbon black is still carbon black after it's been ground, and it's no different for compounds or concentrates. Typically, re-processing and grinding cause slight changes: 1) increased MFR, 2) decreased mechanical properties, 3) decreased conductivity. This will lead to a case of cost optimization; If the scrap needs to be utilized, the production window must be aligned for the upcoming re-processing, which might lead to slight.
Why are there mainly PE- and PP-based concentrates on the portfolio?
Concentrates are ideal solutions for commodity polymers such as polyolefins and polystyrene, where cost structure plays a significant role. For engineering and specialty polymers, "compound" is a more typical approach as the desired properties are often much more specific and harder to achieve. PS concentrates are not actively marketed due to the poor overall profitability of the PS market; However, we still manufacture PS-based products for applications and customers, which value premium quality.
Why not add spiral flow figures to your TDS?
We will start to measure capillary rheometer data from selected grades, and this will give a more thorough indication of flowability and can serve the customers better. In addition, we will start building flow simulation data from selected grades to simulate the injection molding process and guide the customers in mold design.
Spiral flow is a workaround method to measure flow in injection molding conditions. But one would need to consider, for example, dilution rate, injection temperature, and several different injection molding settings, wall thickness, etc., which makes measuring and comparing the results quite challenging.
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